- Principals signed agreement that levies be deducted from their salaries
- National Secondary School Commission only saviour for state secondary schools
In this interview with our Editor, Iduh Onah, and State Correspondent, Amos Aar, in his office on 9th June, 2022, Dr Frank Kyungun, the Executive Secretary of Benue State Teaching Service Board (TSB) fielded questions on the state of secondary education in the state, allegations of arbitrary or illegal deductions of school levies from salaries of principals and extortion of schools by education inspectors, among other worrisome issues. Excerpts:
NR: We would like to meet you formally sir, who are we speaking with?
Dr Frank Kyungun: This is Dr Frank Kyungun, the Executive Secretary of Benue State Teaching Service Board, Makurdi. I was once a lecturer, or rather, I am a lecturer with the Federal University of Agriculture, Makurdi; I am a senior lecturer before this appointment came, and I am happily married with children.
NR: When were you appointed?
Dr Kyungun: I was appointed on the 6th of April, 2020.
NR: So, you are two years and just a few months in office now. How has your experience been like since your appointment?
Dr Kyungun: It’s normal, well, it’s not strange as an educationist, it has not been all that strange to me. At least I have been a lecturer for over 12 years at the Federal University. Even during my NYSC, I served as a lecturer at the College of Education, Jalingo. I have flair for teaching, so I have been in the profession all these years. When I was appointed here, it was just like a continuation of my profession; it wasn’t all that strange and knowing full well the condition and the ethics of educational sector especially Benue State, I just feel I should just contribute my quota and see how I can add my value to the development of education especially secondary education in Benue State, and I feel so nice. It’s just like putting a round peg in a round hole. So, it’s not strange; it’s okay.
NR: There is this issue of pension for teachers, even though it encompasses the entire civil service workforce, but in this respect, we are concerned about that of teachers. Is it being managed by TSB or by another agency?
Dr Kyungun: We have an office that is situated at the SSG’s office that manages it. We have a commission, Benue State Pension Commission, that manages the pension activities and contributions at all levels.
Here, what really happens was that a form was given and it exempted people that have less than 5 years in the office, and apart from this, it also exempted people that just came in newly that are not up to 5 years, this is so that they would allow them to settle before the deductions start. You cannot employ somebody now and then you will start the deductions, it looks so odd.
So that is the space that the PENCOM instruction gives and they sent the forms to TSB and all teachers that were eligible filled and forwarded it to the PENCOM office and it is being processed. So, any problem they have, they will write to the Board and I will forward it to the pension office and they will answer them.
So far so good, the deductions have been okay and when you are introducing a system, a policy that is created newly, there may be some rancour and issues. So, the issues therein have been settled in most cases by the Benue State PENCOM Chairman, Terna Ahua, a seasoned administrator who retired as a Head of Service. So all the issues like over-deduction, not deducting me and leaving me out were the issues that came in and the teachers, being what they are, wrote to TSB and I forwarded the same complaint to the Pension Commission and the issues have been sorted out because nobody has come back to report to me. So, I believe that every problem they raised has been solved.
So, that’s how far we have been managing the issue of pension in the Board here. So, it’s not we that initiated the policy, there is an office, we house the staff; the files of the staff are here, so there is nothing they can do without us, all the staff information, so it is we that know the people that are eligible and people that are not eligible, so we distributed the forms.
It was just unfortunate that even those who were not eligible, that were having less than 5 five years never knew and they started deducting them. But we sent their names to the PENCOM office and they stopped the deductions. They collected forms and they knew very well that they were not eligible having not been up to 5 years in service but they went and filled the form and when their salaries were being deducted, they came back to complain. They were not supposed to fill the form at all, it was clearly stated there, so the mistake is from them. You know, teachers are very difficult to manage, they are just like students, they are so complex. There are a lot of allegations that teachers lay on this board but if you carefully observe and also find out from me, you will discover that all they say is not the truth, so that’s what happened during the pension enrolment and deductions.
NR: So those issues and misunderstandings about the pension have been resolved?
Dr Kyungun: Yes, they have been resolved by the Pension Commission because they did not come back to me again. Once I refer them there and they did not come back here, I take it that it has been resolved because if they have another issue, they would have come back to me.
NR: Some teachers are complaining that their salaries are being deducted for contributory pension but the state government on its part is not contributing. Is it true? If yes, is the state government going to make its contribution later?
Dr Kyungun: As far as I am concerned, I don’t know, I would have asked you, how did they know that the state government is not contributing?
NR: They will know from the alert they get from their Pension Fund Administrators (PFAs).
Dr Kyungun: I stand to challenge them that they are not saying the truth, they are not saying the truth. The state government is equally contributing. Everything has been controlled by PENCOM and everything has forwarded.
I’m not speaking on behalf of the state government but as an insider, as an administrator, I know because my staff are also involved. What the state government is doing is to see how the accumulated pension, both its contribution and the staff contributory deductions, how it will hit hard and he will borrow money to clear all the pension issues in Benue State. That is what His Excellency (Governor Ortom) even told us, you are aware, he always mentioned this.
If the state government is not contributing, where would the whole bulk of money have come from? So, I think they are just assuming that the state government is not contributing, they may not have any evidence to show you. You see, these people, as I told you, they are very, very hard to deal with; they only see in their own view, what is favourable to them, anything about government is negative especially when it comes to partisan politics. If you ask a wrong person from a different party, the impression that they will create about the Ortom administration will be negative; nothing good about Ortom. If you were unfortunate to have interviewed any person from the other side, what he will tell you is going to be very different from what you see on ground; he will tell you nothing is going on here, but thank God it is good that you are asking me so that you see yourself and then you balance. Already you have gone to the field and you had all the facts, so you will know who is telling the truth and who is telling the lie. I am not saying they are liars, that is their view, is it not so?
NR: Let’s proceed to the issue of education budget in Benue State. What has been the approximate figure of education budget in the state since the beginning of this administration in 2015 vis-a-vis UNICEF’s recommendation that greater priority be accorded the education sector annually, even if the required international standard is not followed?
Dr Kyungun: Generally, that question would have been better answered by my Hon. Commissioner of Education because he best knows the percentage and the budget allocated to the Ministry of Education. I’m just occupying a sector of Education, I’m in charge of all secondary school education in Benue State. But when you talk about a broader perspective, he is better placed to answer that question.
In the general term, I think actually, I was not around in 2019, so, I don’t know how it was done but from 2020 up to date, actually, education has been underfunded, that is just the general view I have. If it is not underfunded, we wouldn’t have been having difficulties in other activities of education.
It started from the national level; you know very well. How much is being allocated for Education? I think the highest percentage is 10 or 11% and sometimes lower than that. There is no state, and I stand to be corrected; no state has gone beyond 12% in Nigeria. Education has been looked down upon in Nigeria and they don’t know that education is the bedrock of any development in the society.
Education is being undermined. If you look at, you know, I’m not being biased; I am not emotional, even. Can you imagine, ASUU people, public universities have been on strike now for almost six five months! For what? Our private universities are there and we are sending our children abroad. You see how education has been underrated in this country? I stand to be corrected, Education has been undermined in this country, quote me anywhere.
NR: In a layman’s language, I think this question is related to the immediate past question; how much has been allocated to secondary education in the state?
Dr Kyungun: Well, secondary education, education generally, the allocation to education, the figures are with the Ministry of Education. But when you talk about secondary education, what really comes here is in the capital projects and the recurrent for payment of teachers and other allowances; but all are being controlled by the Accountant General’s office. Ours is to prepare the PVs here and then we send them there and every money is to paid. We only know how much, because it we that prepare the budget, we only know how much that is finally passed and we know how much the state government pays for teachers’ welfare, but other things we only prepare it and send to the appropriate places for implementation.
NR: So, in terms of teachers’ salaries, how much do we look at?
Dr Kyungun: In terms of teachers’ salaries, right now, what the government spends; when I came on board, the state government was paying close to over N600 million on teachers’ salaries in the state, and that is the highest, every month.
NR: Close to N600 million?
Dr Kyungun: Closely over N600 million on salaries of only secondary school teachers’ every month. We have over 300 grant-aided schools; yes, and we have, by then over 5,039 teachers, staff across, and you know that there are a lot of allowances being paid teachers. They collect their 12½ per cent, their salary is different from other civil servants and two, it is higher.
In addition to that, teachers are not employed on grade level 5 or 6 because the lowest that we employ here is NCE, so you start with grade level 7, and if we were with TRCN, then you are on grade level 7+12 per cent; so the wage bill of teachers are higher than any other organisation in the state, yes, because of the nature of the education sector and the educational nature and employment of a teacher. You see, all of them are enjoying 12½ per cent after their grade level 7 and they go to even grade level 16 and their allowances therein and promotion generally. That is what I met on ground – close to over N600 million – and it was paid monthly; that is what the state government pays!
Now because of deaths and transfers, you know some people have retired, some died, and some transferred their services from TSB to other organisations, and I did a screening in 2021. You are aware, I even addressed the press and I got over 443 illegal staff that were on payroll, it was everywhere in the press.
When I came it was very atrocious! When I saw the wage bill, all the figures were not even corresponding; the Account [department] was giving me different figure, state civil service was giving me different figure and ASUSS was giving me different figure and I said no, let me go into the field and find out who and who is there.
So, I wrote through the Ministry to His Excellency and they gave me the authority to vet, to screen my staff and I went into it. I used almost 2-3 weeks to screen my staff all over the 23 local governments in the state and I discovered that 443 were illegal on the list and we dropped them. Now the wage bill of TSB is just closely over N400 million for the whole staff of TSB.
You know, these people are very funny; some people will die, but at the end of every month, they will come back from the grave and receive salary and go and die back. And some people will retire and their names will still be on the payroll. Some will transfer their services out of here and their names were still here. So, all these things were sanitised and now we are managing it well. If you hear a lot of massive complaints about TSB retiring people anyhow; I can’t retire people anyhow because there are rules and regulations that guide this Board and the civil servants. If I retire people anyhow, they will write.
NR: In some of the schools, there were complaints; in fact, virtually all of the schools we visited, there were complaints that teachers are owed salaries; some months from 2017 and then April and May this year, and now we are in June and they’ve not been paid. What’s the problem?
Dr Kyungun: I am always factual, I’m frank, I agree with you and I also agree with them because we have an outstanding arrears of five months in 2017 for teachers and April and may salaries have not been paid. I spoke with the Accountant General about the April salary and they are supposed to pay this week but they were having some problems, so the April salary is to be paid by next week [June 12-June 18, 2022].
I don’t know whether they will combine both April and May. I spoke with him myself and he said they are working on modalities so that at least they will be up to date; it is like it has never happened before; it is like there is something wrong somewhere, may be the allocation did not come correctly or abundantly or insufficiently so they are waiting for the next allocation so that it will be combined and they will be able to pay.
NR: There are some who have retired, they complained that they have not been paid their gratuities and they are not even getting pension. I don’t know whether the retirees too are also managed by TSB?
Dr Kyungun: No, that is not my responsibility. Mine is to prepare their documents and give them. So, all the retirees, once they retire, their documents don’t even last here in TSB more than 3 days, once you apply; we will process it in less than 3 days and give you to go and process your retirement at the Office of the Head of Service of the state.
NR: There is a movement called Save Benue Workers and Pensioners with its membership drawn from pensioners, active TSB teachers and the entire civil servants. They have alleged that the convener of the movement was punitively transferred to a secondary school in an interior place that was not safe for the reason that they demanded for payment of their 7 months’ salary. What is your take on that?
Dr Kyungun: When you talk about union in an organisation, we have a recognised union, is it not so? Here at TSB, we have two unions that operate here: we have ANCOPSS [All Nigeria Conference of Principals of Secondary Schools] and ASUSS [Academic Staff Union of Secondary Schools]. These are the two associations that we know, and if staff are pressing home their demand, I think they should go to these two unions, is it not so?
So, for you to create another different union, and start threatening the government, if you are the executive secretary or the governor, will you accept it? This is a civil service organisation and they are guided by rules and the rules recognise only two associations to press home their demands. But when you go contrary and start threatening the government…
Anyway, I didn’t take advantage of anybody. When I got the letter, I called all the staff that were concerned; there were 29 of them; and majority of them were teachers and I directed that all of them be invited for meeting with me so that I would advise them as their father. All of them came except their ring leader, he refused to come; that is insubordination number one.
Now what he did, he went and collaborated with a staff and they wrote a damaging letter and shared it on Facebook. He said that I invited him here and I arranged DSS to arrest him so he is under DSS, while he refused to come here (TSB office) because he knew what he did was wrong and illegal.
So, when others came, I advised them that this civil service work is guided by rules and regulations, don’t place your demand outside a union that is not recognised by government and that if you do that, you are antagonising the government. I told them that if they have any problem, they should table it, write it down and get to us the through union leaders and see how we will respond. I pleaded with them and all of them agreed, I didn’t transfer any of them.
This dubious man, he did dubious things: one, he collected all their signatures and told them, those that they deducted their N2,000 each, to sign and after signing, he went and wrote another different thing and attached to it. That’s how they came to testify, all of them said that they never knew it was because of this thing that this man collected their names, that offence number one, especially in lying that the DSS arrested him while the DSS did not; he lied that I called him there and handed him over to DSS, I did not do that.
So, when he knew what he did, he refused to come, so I sent his principal saying if I didn’t see him the next day, I was going to issue him a query and set an investigative panel and send him to DSS because he lied against the DSS and the Board. I have disciplinary actions, I cannot handover my staff to DSS or to any law enforcement agency; for what? We have disciplinary measures here, so why should I? I sent a message to the principal the following day again but he refused to come and he went on to write rubbish on Facebook against the Board. So I told the Principal that if he didn’t come, I was going to stop his salary, then he came. When he came, he started begging and lying down here that he was sorry. So, it is not that I punished him, the transfer was just a routine.
NR: Did the transfer happen after the incident?
Dr Kyungun: Of course, it happened after the incident, but it was not victimisation. If it was victimisation, I would have transferred all of them. It was because of his insubordination, his lie, his criminality, cajoling the staff and writing something that they don’t know. They all testified, they were all here, there were 29 of them; they said they don’t know! I just wanted him to go there [on the transfer] so that we would set a disciplinary committee that will investigate him very well.
So, we are still investigating him because we don’t want him to stay close so that he will adulterate others, that’s why we excused him, it’s not a punishment, it is a normal thing that we used to do. He should stay there while we invite him for an investigative panel. So, it was not victimisation at all, it is a normal routine; the transfer is not a punishment, it is not!
NR: In the management of secondary schools, is it TSB that is in charge of maintenance of schools, provision of ICT, sports and organisation of workshops? I am asking this question because in our visits to schools, we gathered that TSB collects these levies on maintenance, ICT, workshop, quality assurance among others. Is it TSB that is in charge of doing all those things like maintaining or building of infrastructure in schools?
Dr Kyungun: No, it is not TSB 100 per cent, we don’t build schools, but the secondary school or the school fees regime we are using, that I came and inherited, states that the TSB collects sports levy for 1st, 2nd and 3rd terms and remits 3/5 per cent to the Ministry of Education and then use the rest to organise sports for all secondary schools.
“For quality assurance; well, I’m not trying to indict the Ministry of Education, anyway, but we are supposed to collect quality assurance 1st, 2nd and 3rd term, but we only collect for 3rd term; but we go for routine, on the resumption of schools, the Board will go round and monitor the resumption of students and then the normal routine to monitor the curriculum, to monitor the school’s register and inspect everything; the Board goes.”
The Ministry [of Education] collects quality assurance for 1st and 2nd terms and the TSB collects on 3rd term. The Ministry collects workshop 1st and 2nd terms while TSB collects only 3rd term. That’s the school regime and that’s what we have been doing, and the general maintenance fees is two thousand naira (N2000) per student every term. In this maintenance fees, we ask the school to retain N1,400 to maintain the schools and then to remit only N600 to the Board, are you listening to me, that is the sharing formula; all schools retain N1,400 to maintain their schools, in case the roof is blown off. They didn’t tell you how much they collect?
NR: They said they pay N600 for maintenance
Dr Kyungun: You see; they will not tell you. The maintenance fee is N2,000 per student, are you listening to me? They retain N1,400 all this past and then the remit only N600 here for maintenance of the headquarters. Everything you see here, all the new buildings. You were here [Amos Aar] when His Excellency came to commission this block with well-equipped and air conditioned, that is what I the money to do, see the fence; there was no fence here, I constructed all this fence, the car park; it is the money I used to maintain the headquarters.
That is why I said when they talk to you, what they say is different and what is on ground is different. Then the sports levy, we receive 1st, 2nd and 3rd terms and we conduct all secondary schools’ baseball, the all secondary schools’ games, the all secondary schools table tennis; we use to conduct all those games appropriately. Last year, 2021, it was the best all secondary schools’ games. So, we use the money as we collect and undertake the activities that they are meant for.
For quality assurance; well, I’m not trying to indict the Ministry of Education, anyway, but we are supposed to collect quality assurance 1st, 2nd and 3rd term, but we only collect for 3rd term; but we go for routine, on the resumption of schools, the Board will go round and monitor the resumption of students and then the normal routine to monitor the curriculum, to monitor the school’s register and inspect everything; the Board goes. So, we go for monitoring twice every term and we are paid this money [quality assurance] once, only third term; that means we go for monitoring six times in a session and we are paid this money only once; just a term! You see how difficult it is?
NR: What does the quality assurance routine visits entail?
Dr Kyungun: It means going round monitoring schools to evaluate the quality of teaching, inspecting teachers and then inspecting their registers, their teaching/lesson notes and all other things – the number of teachers, what they teach; we monitor everything in all the schools but what we will be given is only once, that is the third term! So, how will that one cover 1st, 2nd, and 3rd terms? But we cannot query!
That notwithstanding, I still explained this to His Excellency and he said I should write so that maybe, they may adjust the school regime policy to see if they will allocate all these things to me accordingly.
The same applies to workshops, the Ministry collects 1st and 2nd terms, the Board collects only 3rd term. We have two workshops that are lined up now but we have to wait till third term.
NR: Some schools said they have never been invited to participate in workshops, in fact one of them said for about four or five years now, there has not been a workshop.
Dr Kyungun: It is not true; it cannot be four or five years…
NR: [cuts in…] And all the schools also said they don’t receive any supply of sports equipment either from TSB or the Ministry of Education; is that true?
Dr Kyungun: We are not supposed to supply any equipment to them; we are supposed to organise sports events, sports activities.
NR: From where will they get sports equipment to practice if the government doesn’t supply them?
Dr Kyungun: When you talk about maintenance fees, they are all inclusive; you maintain everything about the school; N1,400 per student; do you know how many students that they are having? Ours is to organise, we are not supposed to supply; it is to organise, and conduct the secondary schools’ games and we used to do it every year and all the games, recently all basketball games; it was hosted by Mount St. Michael [Aliade]; it was last month [May 2022] and all schools games were held. All the money that is collected here is used accordingly; the records are there. I think what they are saying is not right, by them saying we should buy… [chuckles]; what is the N1,400 going to do? If you go to their schools now, there is nothing to write home about.
NR: Yes, we’re coming to that and now that you have broached it…
Dr Kyungun: On the maintenance fees, I’ve not even finished. You see, the N600, we remit 25 per cent to BIRS.
NR: BIRS, what is BIRS?
Dr Kyungun: Benue Inland Revenue Service; that is from the N600; we remit 25 per cent and we maintain 75 per cent. That is what we manage; that is, all the television here, everything here.
NR: That is why when we started the conversation, I asked about the budget for education, because some of these things are really not supposed to be TSB. TSB, from my own perspective, is supposed to be concerned with the administration of teachers and teaching, so that in the area of facilities or infrastructure of schools, should really be the function of the Ministry of Education, don’t you think so?
Dr Kyungun: Well, the ministry will answer that question, I don’t want to go there because it is not in my field.
NR: Okay, now you have explained the levies being paid to TSB. Our next question is from what we saw when we visited the schools, virtually all the principals complained about deduction of levies from their salaries. For instance, when we went to GSS Ulayi, in fact there is no school there now…
Dr Kyungun: [cuts in…] In Ulayi?
NR: Yes, GSS Ulayi exists only by the signboard of the school that is there. I went to GSS Ulayi and I finished from there in 1986. When we didn’t see anybody, we went to a private school opposite it and the proprietor of that private school told us that TSB has been making deductions from the salaries of the principal even as there were no students anymore. He said that the principal who is the only staff there, his salary has been deducted continuously for ten months and because of that, he was forced to withdraw his children from school. I didn’t see the principal when I went there because they told me he had gone on WAEC supervision. The man also told me that the community intervened in the situation. So why will TSB deduct from the salaries of principals especially those who, one, have no students, and two, even where there are students, the student population we saw in some of the schools is nothing to write home about compared to the population of students in the past?
Dr Kyungun: It’s very unfortunate that you didn’t see the principal, you saw somebody else, so I think that news is fake. I will tell you why we deduct, but about the principal of Ulayi, we stopped the deductions over five months now. I directed, he wrote
NR: Yes, we were told the deductions were stopped after the community intervened.
Dr Kyungun: No, the community didn’t intervene. You see, at times they exaggerate things out of anger or annoyance. Did you ask them how many times I have been to Ulayi? I have been to Ulayi myself for about three times with my Honourable Commissioner.
NR: We were told the commissioner came, and that he was insulting the principal, that was what we were told.
Dr Kyungun: (Laughs) I went there almost three times. This Ulayi issue has been so disturbing to us. One, that school is not even strategic. Let us be very frank; it is not strategic; it was sited out of political permutation or manoeuvring; go and put a school in my village; how many people are there to be attending school? One, it is not strategic. Two, at this level, when we went there, there were grasses everywhere, the school was just as good as dead!
NR: The school is dead; it is not as if.
Dr Kyungun: So, those teachers that were there, I came and I didn’t meet any of teacher; it was only the principal that I met; so it was like they worked out their transfer out of the place and it was only remaining that man; as I went, there was no teacher. I think there was one teacher; I think they were two; the principal and only one other teacher. Even the principal’s office was empty…
NR: There is really no admin block any more, so dilapidated and about to crumble.
Dr Kyungun: Yes, I think everything was blown off, even to farm inside, there was no farming activity going on inside the school. So I asked the principal to see me in my office and when he came, I asked him; what’s the way forward, what do we do? He told me that what he would do is to go and also canvass and advertise but what it should be is that the school should be placed on free school fees, on zero school fees level.
Then I said fine and good, go and canvass and tell me how many students will respond. Go and tell them that we are not going to receive any school fees so that it would motivate them to come back. That is why I said if you had seen the principal; he would have explained even better. I know the principal; he calls me almost every week.
So, I told the principal this and he went and after a term, he came to tell me that he was able to get about 20 students. I asked, how about the surrounding? He said he invited the community to come and help him weed the place so they did. He complained about deductions and I said he should write; I cannot just stop deduction unless you write and then we follow the normal procedure. So, when he wrote, I directed that they should stop any deductions from the principal. It’s over 7, 8 months now that we stopped deducting his money, that is the truth; ask the principal, just call him.
Because of the situation he was facing. One, it was a zero school fees, so if they don’t get school fees, where does he get money to even give; so, I stopped the deduction from the principal’s salary. GSS Ulayi’s principal’s money has not been deducted for over 8 months now, I stopped it, the Board has stopped it until the situation improves.
“It is just very unfortunate that I am hearing this for the first time and I am going to take it up immediately on Monday (that’s 13th June, 2022). I am hearing this information for the first time. It is very unfortunate that GSS Ulayi that I have been on its issue for over two years since I came. That was my concern because when I went there, it was terrible.”
At some point when I called him, the Principal told me that even the 20 students that came, they went back and that he was having just about 3 students. So, I sent my team of quality assurance that they should go and talk to the community. They went and spoke with the community; it was even last month [May], yes. They asked the community; now that the school fee is free, what is the problem now? They said there are no teachers. Now, I transferred two teachers there; they refused to go and the principal didn’t tell me. When we transfer, we give the principal notification.
After three, four months, the principal didn’t tell me. I don’t know how; they went and collaborated with the principal; they refused to go and the principal also stopped going there. So, when we discovered; we queried them from the office here; we called them and we asked them to go back, we gave them queries and asked them to go back to class. So, it’s unfortunate, I’m even hearing this for the first time because my monitoring team was there last month.
NR: What did the team say?
Dr Kyungun: They said they met three staff and only three students. It is just very unfortunate that I am hearing this for the first time and I am going to take it up immediately on Monday (that’s 13th June, 2022). I am hearing this information for the first time. It is very unfortunate that GSS Ulayi that I have been on its issue for over two years since I came. That was my concern because when I went there, it was terrible.
NR: I am concerned about GSS Ulayi because I graduated from there in 1986 and there were students from all local governments as at 1981 when we entered. We had Tiv boys, we had even Yoruba and Ibo students in my class and we were A, B, C and all the other classes; forms 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 and no class was less than C. When we were going out, there were classes A, B, C, D; the population was increasing. When I went to collect my certificate in 1988, the school was still booming. Then suddenly when I went this time, honestly, I was shocked! In my form 5 classroom, the trees that have grown there now are about 10 years old.
Dr Kyungun: If you had had time, you would have asked the community and ask them what is the problem.
NR: I did; I asked the proprietor of that private school, he is from Ulayi, and he said that there were no teachers and that even when teachers came and saw the environment, they always worked their transfer out. So, at the moment, we gathered that the community is even fighting to reclaim the land and this is not only in Ulayi, it is happening in virtually all the schools we went to, issues about…
Dr Kyungun: [cuts in] …issues about encroachment?
NR: Yes! The question anybody who goes round schools in the state, even if not a journalist, will ask after seeing the dilapidated structures in all the schools we visited; is what’s happening to government secondary schools?
Dr Kyungun: Well, I have not finished with GSS Ulayi, it is still part of the question. About GSS Ulayi and the deductions in that particular school, that is the reason. But when you talk of general deductions, why do we deduct these levies from principals’ salaries, not teachers, from principals’ salaries!
NR: But we were told that in a school where the principal is not government-paid, the most senior teacher’s salary is deducted.
Dr Kyungun: Where there is no [government-paid] principal when it is a missionary school, we give our staff as vice principal (admin), then we deduct it so that the Catholic Education Secretary pays back the person the money. We also advise them, anytime that they are not paid, they should write to the board, and they’ve been writing, and we will write back to the ES [Education Secretary] and they pay them, if they have issues, they write to the Board.
So why we deduct that money, I will explain, maybe you’ve heard a different version that is highly negative. A lot of people have been asking this kind of question. So, why do we deduct the levies from principals’ salaries?
When I came here, there was crisis between the former Commissioner and the former TSB Executive Secretary and he ordered that all deductions should stop and he was no longer receiving any deduction from anywhere.
When I came on board, that was the tradition. So, there was crisis between the former Commissioner and the former ES [Executive Secretary of TSB] and he ordered that all deductions should be stopped and he no longer receiving any deduction from anywhere.
When I came, I had a meeting with the Honourable Commissioner and the two associations; the ANCOPSS and the ASUSS, their managements, and we told them the situation, that we cannot operate without deductions from you people. Why we deduct is this: these maintenance fees, sports levies and quality assurance, they are embedded into school fees received, so principals are supposed to collect this money and when they collect this money, they don’t remit; are you hearing me very well? They will just eat it all; they will use everything without remitting to the Board!
Ideally, what they are supposed to collect is only the N1,400 for their maintenance fees and other PTA levies, that is what is theirs. Anything about sports, workshop and maintenance fees, the N600, they will return them to the Board. They don’t! There is a transit account in the Union Bank; if I knew that you were coming, I would have brought the account and the cheque. For over two years now, no teacher has taken even one naira. I think there is one principal that remitted it, I think, twice or three times. Once you remit, we don’t touch your salary, but once you don’t remit, I call them, and said what do we do?
I called all the coordinating principals and I called all the principals meeting; listen; I said, you’re not remitting, what do we do? You receive this money and then you make use of it; you don’t remit, and this is a criminal fraud. If I report you to EFCC now, they will take it up with you, of course now, it is an offence, because the money belongs to TSB and you don’t give them, you remit; you collected from students in the school fees and then you used it without remitting. So, what they did was an agreement and it was signed before the Commissioner that they [TSB] should be deducting it from their salaries.
Call any principal to come before me and let him testify that is not what they said, that was signed. The ASSUS signed, the ANCOPSS signed, the whole coordinating principals signed.
There are times the situations are very difficult so the principals used the money without remitting. So, what’s the relationship that they will create so that it will be conducive for them and the Board, let them be deducting the money from their salaries. Up till now, as I am talking, most of the principals, they will take bank loans, they will have thrifts, they will collect loan in more than five places, if you go to their salaries self, you cannot even deduct anything because it is still minus, it is still zero; I am telling you!
NR: Okay, why don’t…
Dr Kyungun: [cuts in] …Wait, let me explain to you, the debt they owe, up till now, the money that the principals are owing TSB, both maintenance and sports that they’ve not paid is up to three, three terms that we are not able to recover. If we say we’ll recover, and I don’t know how we are going to recover it because, one, their salaries, they have already involved themselves in other facilities; they took loans and the salaries of most of them are reading zero, we don’t even see it. But those that are not reading zero, we deduct because it is based on the agreement that they agreed with us and signed; and they have the itineraries of their deductions; all the principals, they have; that this month we are going to deduct and none of them complained because they are satisfied because it is on the agreement.
If they had not touched our own deductions, we wouldn’t have touched their salaries; is it not so?
NR: What we gathered is that they are being arm-twisted to make those payments; that they are against it, that they were against it right from the beginning.
Dr Kyungun: How I wish you would have brought any of the principals here or call so that you just put him on speaker phone so that I’ll ask him one or two questions.
NR: But as their head, if I do that they will probably be squirming when they see you.
Dr Kyungun: But what I am telling you, it was an agreement, the commissioner was there.
NR: That was what we didn’t know, and they didn’t tell us.
Dr Kyungun: They will not tell you. It was an agreement they signed, the principals signed, that the money should be deducted from their salaries! I cannot just deduct our money from their salaries if they didn’t sign anything, it will be illegal, is that not so? First of all they knew the illegality they did, by not remitting the money!
NR: Let’s get back to the question I was going to ask. In federal government colleges, no school collects cash, I mean, fees are not paid in cash or directly into any school’s account; parents pay on Remita platform and schools get allocations directly from the Federal Ministry of Education for their activities. Why can’t the state government use this approach given that you have shown that, from what you’ve explained, there seems to be a legacy of corruption in the current system of fees collection operated by TSB?
Dr Kyungun: Let me tell you something about school development and schools’ infrastructure provisions. You know, at the federal, the policy is very different because they receive grants. Here at the state, it’s just the recent National Secondary School Commission that is being just introduced; it has not fully taken off; this is the only place that will save even the state schools.
“The schools that Ortom renovated and equipped are up to 29 schools! As you know, it is a gradual process. The other schools have been earmarked for renovations. Those ones that you said, we are going to do them all, because after the release of this budget, he will give some little, little contract to those people to go and do the work. It is a gradual process. In as much as we’ve done some, we can’t do everything in one day, is it not so, or in one year, because the level of dilapidation is just too high in all secondary schools, it’s too high, so we’re gradually taking time.”
You know, for example, in UBEC, there’s is a counterpart funding between the state and the federal governments, is it not so, that is leading to all this massive development of infrastructure; are you aware of that?
NR: Yes!
Dr Kyungun: You’ll not see it in secondary schools because we don’t have that kind of counterpart funding [at the state level] that will develop our [secondary] schools. The National Secondary School Commission that has just been introduced; I think that is the only saviour for state secondary schools; if not there is no any grant, it is 100 per cent the state government that is sponsoring secondary schools in the state; we don’t receive any grant from the federal level, not even one naira; quote me anywhere. The federal government doesn’t give the state secondary school even one naira; there is no counterpart funding!
NR: When all these government secondary schools were built by the state government which provided all these infrastructures that are now dilapidated, were they receiving funds from the federal government?
Dr Kyungun: They were not receiving funds from the federal government, it was then.
NR: So how were they able to provide all the solid facilities?
Dr Kyungun: When the allocations were stable, when the economy was stable. You, yourself you know, you are just asking those questions! The economy is not stable now. Ortom, one, Ortom came at a very difficult time, Ortom is in the opposition party and even the real entitlement, his real entitlement, has been denied, allocations; that we are talking about; we’re not even able to pay salaries frequently just because of these dubious allocations; is it not so? So, if you’re not paying salaries, how can you concentrate on…, even with that; let me say even with that, the Ortom administration has tried massively in the issue of money to do infrastructure.
Go to Government College, Makurdi, have you taken him there? [asks Amos Aar]. Take him to government College Makurdi and see the massive infrastructure development that the Ortom administration has scored. Go to Government Girls Secondary School Makurdi, complete renovations and equipment of computer centres; go to Government Model [Makurdi]; it was down; Ortom renovated and it is now a modern school. Go to Government Secondary School Aliade; go to GSS Oju, have you been to GSS Oju?
NR: [Iduh] Yes, GSS Oju, I think it has a lot of dilapidated [infrastructure]. I went to [GSS] Chika, I went to [GSS] Okpoga; Government Science School, Oju…
Dr Kyungun: [Cuts in] …Good!
NR: …and Government Science Secondary School, Oju is like, let me say…
Dr Kyungun: [Cuts in] …Let me mention my own first now; I’m mentioning the schools that the government renovated; is it not so? I have mention about eight schools now, and then you go to Government College, Otukpo…
NR: I went there too [GSS Otukpo].
Dr Kyungun: Go to Government Science College, Gbajimba; have been there? Just go there and see the fascinated renovation that has gone on there. Go to Government Science and Technical College Garagboughul. The schools that Ortom renovated and equipped are up to 29 schools! As you know, it is a gradual process. The other schools have been earmarked for renovations. Those ones that you said, we are going to do them all, because after the release of this budget, he will give some little, little contract to those people to go and do the work. It is a gradual process. In as much as we’ve done some, we can’t do everything in one day, is it not so, or in one year, because the level of dilapidation is just too high in all secondary schools, it’s too high, so we’re gradually taking time, but those ones that you’ve mentioned, by the grace of God, they are still in the budget; the state government is going to kind of touch all of them; even the GSS Ulayi. I wrote to the Honourable Commissioner; even GSS aah, aah…
NR: [Cuts in] …You mean GSS Agila?
Dr Kyungun: [GSS] Agila! Thank you very much; GSS Agila has been uprooted, there is no school there. I wrote…
NR: GSS Agila is better than GSS Ulayi because they have students even though the facilities are as terrible. We went there too.
Dr Kyungun: They wrote and I attach all the evidence to the Honourable Commissioner and he may discuss it with His Excellency. So, all these schools that are in bad shape in Benue State, His Excellency knows because all the report that we forwarded.
NR: GSS Okpoga seems to be doing well because it had stopped operating at some point but it is now opened. Government Science and Technical Secondary School Otukpa is the only place that when we entered that we think has a semblance of a school of the government secondary schools we visited. But there are many uncompleted buildings there which we were told are government-funded. I also think that Community Secondary School Otukpa is…
Dr Kyungun: It is a clean school, very clean school!
NR: It is the cleanest that I saw in our entire visits…
Dr Kyungun: [Cuts in] … That is the best community secondary school in Benue State.
NR: Very good!
Dr Kyungun: I know it, I toured the whole schools in Benue State.
NR: It is the only school that we visited that has modern computers and ICT facilities, the type you have here. They have state-of-the-art ICT facility. It is in fact the only school that we saw with modern computers. In GSS Oju that you talked about being renovated, the computers we saw there were the ancient computers! [chuckles]
Dr Kyungun: Those ones that I said you should go, except those ones in Makurdi and those ones in Aliade, Gbajimba, Garagboughul and Gboko.
We’ve tried. Since I came in 29 schools have been renovated by this administration and they are well equipped. But the massive schools, you know we have 60 government secondary schools in the state.
NR: 60?
Dr Kyungun: Yes, we have 60.
NR: I’ll say, out of that 60…
Dr Kyungun: [Cuts in] … So, for now, we have renovated 29, in the process, we are still renovating others; it is not that we will do everything, with the scarcity of fund, you know how the economy is hitting this country; so gradually, we’re going to renovate. When we met all these dilapidated structures, it was too glaring; there were no secondary schools, it was Ortom the Ortom administration that came and started renovating all these secondary schools; I am telling you, just quote me anywhere, 29 schools, GSS, 29 renovated; only the few; but we are trying by all means…
NR: [Cuts in] …But contrary to that, sir; the Education Secretary of Otukpo Catholic Diocese said that it the Ortom administration, and he was specific, that made education to go down. He said that the Catholic Church used to get some maintenance and all that up to Suswam’s administration, and that this current government stopped all those things and that it is the reason for their agitation to take back their schools to maintain them and that since the partial take over, they are doing well but that the government is collecting over N22 million every year from Catholic schools for all the levies put together.
Dr Kyungun: Well, I don’t know where he got his information from. Well, he is the ES [Education Secretary], so I don’t know where he got the information. But so far as I know, and so far as I’m concerned, and so far as I am in charge of secondary schools in Benue State, most of the Catholic schools are grant-aided, and most of the Catholic schools retain N1,400 for their maintenance; they only give us N600.
I don’t know where he got the N22 million, yes, I don’t know. I have explained everything to you; you’re aware that they take N1, 400 per student, including Catholic schools, and they give us just N600. So, if you take N1,400, why don’t you use that to maintain your schools?
“Apart from the money; that one rests with the Ministry of Education. But I am telling you as ES [Executive Secretary] of TSB; that government has been intervening in all those schools; and giving, supplying computers, modern computers to all of them, including Otukpo; St Francis Otukpo; St Anne’s Otukpo; yes; Mount St Gabriel’s; NKST, Uvande.”
Of course, government also must have some interventions, is that not so? There must be some intervention and that is what we are doing. If you go to Queen of Rosary, you’ll see our presence there; St Johns, you will see; if you go to Mount St Gabriel, you will see our presence there. We have been giving interventions in all these Catholic schools; we have been giving intervention in all these NKST schools; and we have been giving intervention in all these schools.
NR: What they said is that the government doesn’t give the mission schools anything, rather, they are the ones giving the government. They also argued that if the government returned their schools to them…
Dr Kyungun: [cuts in] …How much did they pay; out of N2,000…
NR: I’d told you, the Otukpo Catholic Diocese said it has been paying N22 million for levies every year aside examination fees. The NKST Education Secretary said he is not able to immediately calculate how much they pay but that they have all the records.
Dr Kyungun: Which of the school fees, is it the sports?
NR: The mission school owners said if they are allowed to take back their schools, they will be happy to use whatever they get to maintain their schools. I was coming to the issue of why don’t the government return the Churches’ schools to them?
Dr Kyungun: Let me also observe, like if we are just trying to interact. If the sports levy is given to them; is it given for the development of the school?
NR: It will essentially be for the development of their sports facilities, I suppose.
Dr Kyungun: Thank you very much. Sports levy is for sports activities, is it not so; which we are also doing? If the quality assurance is given to them, are they going to maintain the schools? they are going to go round and monitor their schools, which we are doing! If the workshop levy is given to them, is it to maintain the schools? No! it is to organise and update teachers in their up-to-date knowledge; is it not so? Just get me right. What is supposed to be the development of the school is the maintenance fee, which they kept N1,400 and they gave us N600; only N600 that we are taking that…
NR: Sir, their argument, the argument of the Church is that, it’s the primary responsibility of government to provide education. They said they are only helping the government in doing that, and which they have been doing before independence, anyway. They expect that given the nature of the services they render; government should subsidise education and not to take from them.
Dr Kyungun: What is government taking from them? Let’s analyse from there; what is the government taking from them?
NR; The fees they are paying, they said they are not supposed to pay.
Dr Kyungun: Why?
NR: I think basically because they are providing services that is a core role of government. Don’t you think so?
Dr Kyungun: Well, those Education Secretaries, I used to have meeting with them; all the Catholic, Methodist, NKST etcetera; they have not told me that, they have not told me that.
NR: They told us that that is the basis for…
Dr Kyungun: They have not told me that, they have not complained; none of them complained; none of them has ever complained about all those fees! Rather, I challenge them to pay their maintenance fees; the ones they are owing; that is why I deduct from their salaries so that they pay and they pay, because they know what they are doing! Is it not so? If they had problem with that, they should have told me and then we would have put it on the table.
NR: Okay!
Dr Kyungun: For them to just leave accumulating and then go and lie against the government is not correct. I am telling you and I am giving you the whole summary of what is happening here.
NR: Okay; yeah!
Dr Kyungun: Is it not so?
NR: Yeah; I am so happy with the response you have given.
Dr Kyungun: Yes, it is not correct!
NR: From the impression I had before; I didn’t have all these explanations before now. Now that I have them and I compared them with what I heard, I am very happy. But the issue I am talking about and as I journalist, my intervention is that, how much; and that is why I first asked about education budget. How much is the government giving to the school? It is not the money they are collecting from students; do you understand what I mean?
Dr Kyungun: It is not even the how much; I said any type of budget and budgetary accommodation; yes, I am not in the position to answer you that, but I am telling you the intervention of the government in all schools; I am telling you of the interventions. Apart from the money…
NR: Yeah…
Dr Kyungun: Apart from the money; that one rests with the Ministry of Education. But I am telling you as ES [Executive Secretary] of TSB; that government has been intervening in all those schools; and giving, supplying computers, modern computers to all of them, including Otukpo; St Francis Otukpo; St Anne’s Otukpo; yes; Mount St Gabriel’s; NKST, Uvande…
NR: [Cuts in] …And Bristol [Secondary School, Gboko]?
Dr Kyungun: …And Bristol; we have been intervening. So, I don’t know, anything about monetary, I am not able to answer.
NR: Okay.
Dr Kyungun: But when you talk about intervention. Even recently, the governor supplied over 30 thousand desks to be shared in all those schools.
NR: We saw some of them…
Dr Kyungun: They will not tell you that one!
NR: Yes, I saw them, they told us, only that we are told they were bought during the administration of Suswam. In some of the schools, they didn’t give us audience until the intervention of some community leaders.
Dr Kyungun: They will not allow you because…
NR: When we approach them, they usually ask for a letter of introduction from TSB or the ministry of Education. In some cases, we go to the community and they will give us somebody to ensure that we are not there to harm them.
Dr Kyungun: Actually, that one I agreed with them, because I told them that nobody, on any account; it is our own rule, that on no account should they allow anybody to just enter the schools.
NR: So, essentially most of the information we got were facilitated by the community leaders. In some cases, we got frustrated and left but when you go to communities, they have leaders and education committees that will facilitate access. The principals were not cooperative at all; some will ask students to escort us out of their premises.
Dr Kyungun: On that one, they are right. When I came on board, there were uncontrollable trespasses of all our schools. people would go in the name of we are going to organise quiz competition or this club without even contacting the Board and then they will go and start initiating our boys and girls into cults; there were a lot of such cases of initiation into cults; people just troop into the schools without our clearance. So it was becoming unbecoming, so I gave a law that anybody that wants to carry out any activity in any of our secondary schools must seek clearance from the Board, so that one they are right; it is a law that is here. If you had known, you would have come here and we would have given you clearance and nobody would have questioned you, and once you show such a letter from TSB, they will just allow you.
“So that’s what we’re doing. But by them saying that there is no any intervention is just very unfortunate. I don’t know anything about money intervention, but when it comes to facilities, there is a lot of intervention, especially these missionary schools; lots of interventions.”
If they had allowed you, you would have seen some of the new computers, the new system provided by the state government. Now there is a system called BESEVIC [Benue State Government e-Learning/Virtual Education and ICT Resource Centre]. It is an online learning introduced by the government so that all the schools in the state will be connected. That’s why we, the Board, started collecting ICT levy, it’s from this year because of the BESEVIC. So the contract can be given and by the end of next month, they will start going to interior schools to go an install the facilities of connectivity to the e-learning. We had not collected even one naira as ICT, it was only last year, because of this BESEVIC that we started collecting; it was 1st and 2nd term.
NR: Has there been any pilot programme to test the viability of the e-learning project in the state, especially in the urban centres?
Dr Kyungun: As regards network or what?
NR: Yes, network availability, the operations and all necessary ICT requirements in order to envisage challenges that might be encountered in the future, so that it will not become a white elephant project.
Dr Kyungun: All these things have been deliberated; they have been taken care of; we brought experts. So, the collection of ICT levy by the Board, 1st and second terms, is based on this BESEVIC introduction of e-learning. We have also told all the principals to establish internet in all their areas so that once we just bring the facility, they will just connect and then the e-learning starts. And we advised them, and that is the reason why the state government is quick in most cases to distribute all these computers to all the schools; but it has not finished, it will be done gradually. Before the experts takeover finally, all Benue schools will be well-equipped with all computer facilities so that they will have easier access to the e-learning.
So that’s what we’re doing. But by them saying that there is no any intervention is just very unfortunate. I don’t know anything about money intervention, but when it comes to facilities, there is a lot of intervention, especially these missionary schools; lots of interventions.
NR: We have virtually trashed the major issues, but there’s one naughty issue, which is about education inspectors who visit schools for quality assurance. The management of schools are complaining that when the inspectors visit the schools, they demand for money for transportation and accommodation. Is it the schools that are supposed to fund their trips?
Dr Kyungun: It is not the schools; that is why we collect quality assurance money. There is budget for quality assurance. It’s not only us that goes for monitoring, even the Ministry [of Education] goes, so I don’t know what happens in the ministry.
But I tell you, when I came in, the system was highly polluted, the system was highly polluted by give-and-take, compromised even at the Board here. I have to transfer all those people out of this place. Even transfers and promotions were given based on give-and-take. That was how horrible it was here. But if they have been fair to me, ask them; the level of sanity that has been created here at the Board, the massive promotions that went on in the past two years, ask them, and nobody asked for one kobo here. I told them and I instructed that anybody that gives you promotion demanded anything, come and tell me. It is open! There is no teacher or principal that is barred; no, you can’t bar them out; it’s free; once you’re a teacher or staff.
So, those ones, if we, the Board, are going for any activities that concerns monitoring, there is a budget, we give them money for transportation, feeding and accommodation. I told all of them [principals], don’t give any of them from the Board any money, all of them have been taken care of.
But you see, who will say who to who when who said is who? These teachers or these principals, they fetch us a lot of troubles in their records keeping. At the end, they seem to turn to see if they can bribe those people so that they can shield them. At times they will not tell you all those things. To cover up, they give them [inspectors] money not because they are insisting or they demanded; sometimes they give them money to cover up their dirty deals; that is the truth.
For here, nobody is authorised to collect one naira for any official duty from secondary schools; that one I told them; I told all my principals and they are aware. So, if any principal gives anyone any money without complaining or telling me, or somebody requested for money and the principal quietly gives him or her without telling me, it means it is the principal’s fault. If I know the principal, I would have queried that person. They are not supposed to do that; it is the law; it is a law. That is the reason why I even told the Honourable Commissioner that no director whatsoever should go to inspect my school to inspect my school without me knowing. They should seek permission here because the schools are directly under me, they only oversee us; they don’t have right to trespass my school without me knowing.
“So anybody that tells you somebody goes to visit and got money, it is not supposed to be so and I had instructed them; don’t give anybody any money because everything, if I send you on official assignment here, all the provisions, all your allowances will be taken care of by the Board.”
I told them that if anybody collect money from any principal, they should tell me. You know these principals, when they see the inspectors, they will start shivering, you know; and they gave them money and they failed to tell me because the know very well that if they tell me, I will get them queried and they will go back to bounce on them.
For here, the system has been so transparent in a way that if anybody collects money here, he goes. My own RC Salaries was involved in sharp practices and when I discovered, immediately I posted him to the classroom. I did the same thing to the man in charge of promotions. He was collecting money from people before he gave promotion; I transferred him to a community secondary school.
So here is just a no-nonsense place, and is so intolerant; here at the Board; we are intolerant of anything sharp practices and corruption, and that is what I introduced, but you know, when you meet a rotten system, for you to improve it, you have to look in at; when you fight corruption, corruption fights you back. You know; it was already in their blood; that was what they were doing, so when I came to correct it; it seemed so strange but thank God, they are getting used to it.
So anybody that tells you somebody goes to visit and got money, it is not supposed to be so and I had instructed them; don’t give anybody any money because everything, if I send you on official assignment here, all the provisions, all your allowances will be taken care of by the Board.
NR: Although the conversation is getting very long but it’s very interesting getting these insights. One question I think we must ask for clarification is the policy of the government in trying to hand over the schools to their owners. I’m talking about the private owners, the faith-based schools under grant-aid. We learnt that the policy was underway but somehow the public is a bit not aware of what is going on about the handover, though we learnt there is a court process in the matter while the private owners said the government cannot handover the schools in this dilapidated condition. The faith-based said they have to adopt the Anambra model. What is actually around that issue of taking back or handover of the grant-aided schools?
Dr Kyungun: Whenever you hear that there’s a court issue and they cannot handover the schools, it’s false; it’s false. You see, ehm, when people say they have seen nothing good about this administration, I said it is not. At least, let’s be realistic, let’s say something; by saying something, even the truth; you can say it but still condemn somebody or if you don’t want somebody, just say the truth about him.
You see, the state government felt that they are taking or the schools were handed over or they took over from the private owners, and when I mean private owners, I mean faith-based, community and all these schools that we grant-aided; it’s been a long story during the military time through a decree that these schools were taken over by the government and since then the government has been managing all the schools and they have not been handed over.
So, when the government came and saw the burden that they had taken, the burden of providing; one, it is very unfortunate, they will not tell you, all the teachers that are in these schools are being paid by the government, is it not so?
NR: They admitted that but…
Dr Kyungun: So for them saying that they are not having anything good about the government…
NR: [Cuts in] …The mission schools said not all the teachers in their schools are from government and that since the government did not send teachers to them, they have a lot of gaps in the teaching staff and that…
Dr Kyungun: [Cuts in] …That is what we can send, is it not so?
NR: Yes.
Dr Kyungun: That is what we can send! If you go to somebody’s house and he gives you food and it is not enough for you, you can go and look for food on your own and eat. That is what we can offer; is it not so?
NR: Yeah!
Dr Kyungun: We give them all staff we can.
NR: What about the litigation?
Dr Kyungun: I am coming to that. First, the government felt the burden was too much. The faith-based schools, and the other schools, were so, ehm; it is such that we’re even starving our government schools to give our teachers to faith-based schools. Most of the staff preferred going into these private schools; so we are suffering, and we said fine and good, let us retrieve our staff, give you back your schools, so that you will manage it the way they want. So we sat with them in a meeting and we mapped out some strategies that we were going to give them their schools and we even sent letters to all schools to prepare for the handover.
It was still there then that the missionaries came back and told us that it was too impromptu, that they cannot start employing teachers now after the withdrawal of our teachers that we should give them time; they will not explain this to you…
NR: [Cuts in] …No, they did.
Dr Kyungun: Secondly, they said that these schools were taken over from them through a law, and so for us to also give them back, there must be a school law guiding the return of the schools, so we should go ahead and amend the Benue State Educational laws.
NR: Yes, they said so but…
Dr Kyungun: [Cuts in] …And then we now initiated; you know it will be an executive bill; so we now initiated and said that is a good one. But we said they should prepare, that after finishing all these things, we’re going to handover the schools to them, and they said yes, but then they said by the time when the law is done, they will be ready but that the process should start and we started the process. It [the bill] is in the House of Assembly, I think the last time I asked, the law had passed second reading at the Benue State House of Assembly. To amend law, they cannot just go and start; it has to pass through the processes and that is what it is in now.
We are going to give back their schools but we have to kind of amend the Benue State Educational law as they suggested, so that they will be comfortably handed over to them.
“They never discussed that in the meeting, none of them brought that issue and none of them discussed it. If they tell you that they had discussed it with us, tell them they are liars. None of them discussed that policy, and none of them discussed strategy. All what they were saying, they said it should be gradually done. And they gave another option; that since it was a law that backed up the takeover of the schools, it must also be backed up by law, and it is what we are doing.”
NR: They said they suggested the Anambra model of schools’ handover.
Dr Kyungun: There is no issue of litigation, I have not received any copy of litigation, I am in charge of secondary schools, I am supposed to be served, is it not so? I have not received any litigation from any angle or corner, if someone told you that, the person is just exaggerating, he is just being hyperbolic.
NR: What about the Anambra model that they talked about? They said that in Anambra state, when former Governor Peter Obi wanted to return schools to private owners, he adopted a gradual process of handover, and not the sudden manner in which the Benue State Government wants to adopt.
Dr Kyungun: That is what they discussed, but when we were about to do that, they said we should go through this legal process and this legal process will also make them to get ready; is it not so?
NR: What about the subvention which is encompassed in the Anambra model? Peter Obi gave them subventions to return the schools to the state that the schools were before been taken over by government. The mission owners said their schools had very good infrastructure before government takeover, and that the government has run down the facilities.
Dr Kyungun: Well, they never discussed that in the meeting, none of them brought that issue and none of them discussed it. If they tell you that they had discussed it with us, tell them they are liars. None of them discussed that policy, and none of them discussed strategy. All what they were saying, they said it should be gradually done. And they gave another option; that since it was a law that backed up the takeover of the schools, it must also be backed up by law, and it is what we are doing, is it not so? Nobody said that we should apply Peter Obi style; none of them mentioned it. May be that one maybe an afterthought because I attended all the meetings; I attended all the meetings and none of such was mentioned in any of the meetings. And there is no litigation whatsoever.
NR: Maybe it was said before your appointment.
Dr Kyungun: No, it was when I came on board. Even if it were before I came on board, I would have been briefed. I think there is nothing like that.
NR: Okay. Finally, and this was based on my personal observation when I visited the schools. In most of the schools, from JSS1 to 3, the population is reduced, and from SSS1 to 2, population is also few and when you come to the senior examination class for WAEC and NECO, you have bloated number of students. If the quality assurance officers who visit these schools, I don’t know whether they had gone on visits to notice this. Is this not an indication of the so-called miracle centres? If for instance you don’t have more than 20 students in SSS 2, and then in SSS 3, suddenly you have a hundred-plus students. Don’t you think this should strike something immediately?
Dr Kyungun: Well, when I took over, I held a meeting with my principals, there’s a standing instruction that they should not admit any student in SS2, that is the law. And we told all principals, if any of your student is being admitted by another principal into SS 2, write to us. That is the rule. If you discover that any of your students has moved and has being admitted by any principal into SS 2, come and tell us; as far as admission is concerned, that is the law that we have been operating.
Well, when you talk about miracle centres, there’s no police that doesn’t have fault no matter how you try. We have been on this for quite a long time and we have been clamping down on schools that have indulged in such sharp practices; we have been clamping down on schools. So, well, I cannot sit here and tell you that there is hundred percent, I’ll be lying. But for now, if you go to a school and may be the population increased at the higher level, I think the monitoring is still there. That doesn’t mean that you should conclude that it is examination malpractice centre.
Some people do that for their convenience which we say should not happen but if they are doing it, those principals have not come back to report to me. Even the principals themselves have been compromising but they will not tell you the truth. So for me here, I know very well, or I have taken it that in as much as nothing like that has been reported to me, there’s nothing like that going on.
So, I can say here emphatically that what you saw may not be a feedback that I’m receiving because right now they are in the field. The quality assurance staff are in the field monitoring the exams, they are monitoring their files, their registers, who came; when did he come. So I think that is what is going on. So, if there is any of such, fine; I am not aware but as you have told me, I will find out, I will investigate and ask my quality assurance to know what’s going on in the field. It is after the come that they will give the report. But all the same, I will also ask them but for me, I don’t think that nothing as such is taking place.
NR: We have gathered that the challenge facing government schools in terms of depopulation is private owners and in so many other areas, the cause of depopulation in government secondary schools is the mushroom schools springing up. Is it TSB that is in charge of regulating the private ownership of private schools or ministry of Education?
Dr Kyungun: It’s the Ministry of Education. Anyway, we’ve also discussed that issue severally with the Hon. Commissioner about the depopulation of our schools because of all those mushroom schools that don’t have facilities and employ unqualified teachers even SSS3 boys so that they will pay them 10-10 naira.
That responsibility rests on the shoulders of the Ministry of Education and I believe they are doing something about it. The former Commissioner [of Education] that just left, Prof. Dennis Ityavyar, I think there was one time that he clamped down on over 50 small schools and there was noise everywhere; there was noise everywhere!
I think he was trying to embark on the same journey before he resigned to pursue his governorship ambition. But I believe that the present Commissioner [Hon. Saawuan Tarnongu] who just came into office will do something about it though we have not discussed the issue yet. When he has meeting with us, we will mention it to him that these mushroom schools are becoming unbecoming. He also promised that he was going to embark on a routine check because a secondary school must have complete facilities. But some don’t even have a football pitch, they will have only one class room and then they have JSS1 to SSS3. So the situation is really alarming but by the grace of God, the Hon. Commissioner is up to the task; he will certainly do something about it.
NR: Thank you very much Executive Secretary, we are very glad for the audience you gave us and the deep explanations that you have provided on a range of issue we heard from our visits, and I must say we were a bit shocked by them. But now that you have thrown light on them, I think you have provided the perspective for the report that will eventually come out. Thank you once again.
Dr Kyungun: Thank you very much. I’m pleased, I’m glad.